Menu

Security Expert: Employee Theft/Embezzlement

Employee theft causes the greatest loss to companies. Learn how to prevent, detect, and investigation employee theft.

Employee Theft by Fake Robbery: A Painful Tale

,

Employee Theft by Fake Robbery: A Painful Tale

Ginsu Knife Set Employee Stabbed Self with One Like This

Sometimes employees either commit robberies of their employer or they are the “brains” behind it. I read a story long ago that stated employees were responsible for over 70% of business robberies. I remember thinking how dumb it would be to do such a thing but, then again, stranger things happen. So here’s a warning to you HR-types:  Don’t read this.

I got a call from one of my Dallas Regional Managers late one night to report a horrible armed robbery at one of our stores. The store manager was closing and was forced back into his store to open the safe. The suspect stabbed the manager in the abdomen in the process and was now in surgery. The injury was life-threatening. The safe: cleaned out. Loss: around $4000.00.

Joe closed the store and sent the employees home. He straightened up his office, locked the safe and left. As he turned from locking the door “a huge black guy” showed up and forced him at knife point back into the store. He was terrified and nervous and had a hard time remembering the combination to the safe. The suspect grew impatient and stabbed him. Wounded, he bravely got the safe open and the suspect left with the money.

Joe was bleeding profusely and immediately passed out. He was going into shock. After about 10 minutes he regained consciousness and called 911. He survived but, according to doctors, he was near death when he was brought in.

As usual, my department investigated crimes of all kinds and worked well with local law enforcement.  The crime scene was a horrible bloody mess. Except for the attack-weapon, a Ginsu knife, the office was as tidy as a pin.  The Regional on scene found it odd that a bad guy would bring a Ginsu knife to a robbery.  Then while talking to the Detective, he sees an end cap of Ginsu knives near the office .  There on the shelf was an open box with one knife missing…yep…the one on the floor in the office.

Of course, he thought; the guy came in, shoplifted the knife, and stood around outside to rob the manager. Or…no, this couldn’t be the case…the manager staged the robbery and stabbed himself! As it turned out, that was, in fact the case. Joe had this crime perfectly planned but had never stabbed himself so this whole “stab myself thing” would be just a guess.

When he stabbed himself, he had already taken the money to his car and drove to a nearby friend’s apartment. He hid the money there and returned to the store. So far, so good. When he stabbed himself he did not know just how painful that was going to be and he misjudged the strength of his thrust. Result: excruciating pain and immediate heavy blood loss. Luckily, as he was bleeding out, he regained consciousness long enough to call 911.

He subsequently failed the Dallas police polygraph. They money was never recovered even after police received a tip as to where it might be. The one thing that tripped up the whole plan was that, based on his description of the events, he was outside when attacked and forced back into the store. For that to be true he would have had to set the burglar alarm. That also meant that he would have had to turn it off upon re-entering the store. None of that happened.

Human Resources was all atwitter. How can we fire this poor man after having been stabbed, etc. There was no confession, no video, no recovery of the money. After several explanations, Joe was sent packing for “failure to protect company assets”. Worked for me.

As for the Ginsu knife set…the remaining knives went into the trash after they were removed from the book inventory.

Employers: employees will be your worst liability and will go to extreme lengths to commit some acts. Never ask why. They can never explain it.

Retail Loss Prevention Expert: Employee Prosecuted For Theft She Did Not Commit. A Case Study

, , , ,

Employee Theft Interview and Litigation Expert

Introduction

I am a security expert witness. I am retained by plaintiff and defense attorneys related to negligent security, inadequate security, physical security measures and a host of others. My job is to assist the attorney with a highly specialized area in an effort to eventually provide testimony about my opinions of the incident at hand. My experience in Retail Loss Prevention/Security spans nearly three decades which was very helpful to understanding this case.

The Basic Facts

A major retailer experienced a loss of $5,000 cash. The security department investigated immediately and determined that the shortage came from a customer service department where money orders can be purchased and several types of bills can be paid. It was a high cash-transaction department.

The high security risk of cash required the registers and counter area be covered by high definition color cameras that provided excellent recorded video. This video was reviewed by security staff and no unusual activity was observed until late the evening before.

There was only one employee there that evening and she was a relatively new part-time associate. She had absolutely no supervision but, as it was learned later, she was performing her job very well and always called a supervisor if she had a question. The associate was 52 years old.

The Video

The following is a description of the actions of Ms. Jones (not her real name) during her shift.

At the beginning of her shift, Ms. Jones verified the amount of cash in the register and notated it on a required form. Much of the cash was still in the bank straps and filled both the cash slots and a large space that was below the drawer. The register held several thousand dollars. The customer traffic varied over her 6 hour shift and, as usual, the transactions all involved cash. Money order sales were frequent and the transactions sometimes involved over a thousand dollars. With the amount of cash in the drawer at the beginning of the shift and the added money from transactions, the register was running out of space to the point the drawer was difficult to close. The retailer failed to have the forethought to provide some type of drop to allow better management of the physical space available so Ms. Jones had to do something.

Although Jones was relatively new, she had worked in various positions in retailers and restaurants her entire adult life. Handling money was not new and she didn’t want to bother a supervisor with her dilemma. In an attempt to create space, she removed a handful of cash ($20’s) from the register and placed it on the counter. Subsequently she counted out the money into stacks of 100 bills ($2,000), rubber banded them, and wrote the amount on the stack. One hundred $20s is the correct/standard number of bills for banking and retail. There was so much loose cash that she had to repeat this process several times. Having compressed the stacks of bills into less space, she made room in the register for the drawer to close properly. All of this was recorded with an unobstructed view with the high definition cameras.

While counting and banding the money, Jones picked up two stacks of bills in her left hand and bent under the register to a shelf. When she stood up she made some movement with her left hand under the till and closed the drawer. The money was not seen again. Two hours later her shift ended and the department closed for the evening. A supervisor assisted her in closing out the register and picked up the cash. Ms. Jones never left her area except for a brief moment for a restroom break.

Again the video was exceptionally clear.

The Investigation

The following day the store’s central cashier department discovered the shortage and immediately called security. Because the shortage was for a specific register, they began reviewing the video from the prior day. Nothing suspicious was observed until they saw Jones “playing” with the money. When she began counting money on the counter they felt that was extremely odd but when she bent under the register, they took a closer examination.

When Jones came in at the beginning of her shift, she was carrying her purse and a large over-the-shoulder tote. It looked like a smaller version of a beach bag. She put both under the counter on a shelf that was well right of the register. That was a policy violation but was not atypical.

Security reviewed the video numerous times and came to the conclusion that at the moment she bent over she placed the money in one of her bags. They further concluded that she intentionally took a position with her back to the ceiling camera so as to block the register drawer and her hands from view. Based on that evidence they contacted their supervisor. The supervisor, located in another city, agreed with their conclusions despite not having seen the video. He then authorized the interview of Ms. Jones and also, regardless if she confessed, authorized her prosecution for felony theft. Human Resources met with security and agreed to move forward with the interview and, regardless of confession, agreed to terminate her. With the pieces in place on the retailer side, it was now time to contact the police.

The city had about a 20,000 population and the detective division of the police department was not very large. Security spoke with the day shift Detective and discussed their findings and the evidence. The Detective said to “Call ‘em when you’re done with her. We’ll come get her.” Now all of the pieces were in place and the only thing left was to interview Jones.

Ms. Jones

Ms. Jones is a middle aged woman, who was about 5’2”, and probably needed to carry extra weight during breezy weather to keep from being blown away. She had earned her head of silver hair from years of raising kids and working multiple simultaneous jobs over her life time. The day I met her she looked almost frail but she managed a smile occasionally as we spoke. Obviously, this had taken a toll as what money she did have was nearly gone and she couldn’t find another job. She looked lost.

The Interview

The following afternoon, Ms. Jones came to work as she always did and virtually went through the same motions as two days prior. She put her purse and tote on the same shelf and set about the day’s work.
A person from HR went to her and told her that some paperwork was overlooked when she was hired and they needed her to come back to the office to sign them. When she entered the HR Manager’s office, two security personnel were there as well as the HR Manger and an HR assistant. The lead security person was seated at the HR Manager’s desk and she was place in a chair in front of the desk. She was basically surrounded. The lead security person was a female with about one year’s experience and had no training in interview techniques. Her boss, however, thought the case was clearly open and shut and decided to allow her to conduct the interview.

The lead security person, I’ll call Debra, was seated in the manger’s chair wearing a polo shirt and jeans. She had her hand cupped on top of the desk with arms extended with this very serious look. “Why did you do it?” Debra asked. Ms. Jones started looking at everyone and asked: “Do what?”

I’ll divert from the story to discuss investigations and interviews as part of this case study.
Investigations require patience and professionalism. You are a fact gatherer and you should be very thorough. This process begins to create a picture of the crime itself as well as the potential suspects involved. While this case pointed directly to a single person, it would be very unusual for an employee to steal $5,000 and then return to work. It’s unlikely that the shortage would be overlooked. Despite what you think you see, it pays to be patient and work the process. You have already identified a probable suspect, you know where they live, and given her age she was not likely to be a flight risk. An investigation may take several days but the suspect’s activities are being monitored in the event another shortage occurred.

Now, back to the interview. There is a company, Wicklander and Zulawski (w-z.com), that is the preeminent interview and interrogation trainer in the country. They provide an approach that is conversational and non-confrontational, allowing the two people a chance to calm down to get to a confession. Asking Why did you do it, is not a non-confrontational/conversational start. If Debra had received the least amount of training she would have known this but she would have also known to never expect a full confession after the first question. Furthermore, training would have taught her to listen to the answers from questions and to not simply toss them away as lies. A professional interviewer will get this sense in their stomach that something is wrong. The “suspect” seems clueless to the questions and seems truthful in their answers. A nonprofessional interviewer keeps beating the dead horse because they are failing in front of other employees (who were told this was a slam dunk) and they become frustrated. Debra’s frustration culminated in the final question: “Do you want to go to jail?” By now Ms. Jones was crying and simply said no. Debra then called the Detective who arrived some 10 minutes later. Ms. Jones was handcuffed and walked through the store in front of customers and other employees. She was place in a police unit and transported to the Detective’s office.

The Police Investigation

The best description of their investigation: none. The Detective did not interview Jones or ask her if she had committed a crime. She did not offer any explanation or ask any questions as she was frightened. She’d never been issued a ticket much less be seated in front of a police officer in handcuffs.

The Incarceration: Sometimes all things work out.

Ms. Jones was photographed, fingerprinted and given an orange jump suit. She was booked for felony theft and placed in a cell by herself. Her bond was set but she did not have enough money to post bond nor would they allow her to be released on personal recognizance.

After two days a new inmate was placed in her cell. This could only be seen as a miracle. As the two got to know each other the conversation eventually turned to why they were incarcerated. When Ms.Jones finished her story, her cellmate said she had been in another part of the jail where her cellmate had been charged with felony theft from the same retailer! As the story unfolded, the other “former employee” was busted for stealing cash…a large amount of cash. She refurnished her apartment. She paid off her truck. She bought a new wardrobe. She was also concerned that once her boyfriend found out she was in jail that he would find the rest of the cash in her apartment.

This new information was a godsend and she immediately called a friend to try to get her out of jail. Through the appointment of a public defender, Jones was released on a personal recognizance bond. Her appointed attorney then began to investigate further.

The Reveal

The retailer had been investigating large cash shortages for some time. The shortages had been happening at various departments and with no distinct pattern. When Ms. Jones was “caught” the store thought that was the end of their problems but the shortages continued. Two days after having Ms. Jones arrested, they caught the real thief. The new inmate at the City jail had been a supervisor whose job it was to help employees at the end of their shift close out their register. She was in charge of taking their money to the main cash office and, this time, security had clear video of the theft. The subsequent confession was astonishing: $25,000 that she could remember. As for Ms. Jones’ register, she probably took that money but just couldn’t remember.

With the “new” culprit now in jail, the retailer went back to work as usual. As for Ms. Jones: they did not notify the police that they had wrongfully prosecuted her and she sat in jail for four days.

After months of work, she finally had the charge dismissed and her record was expunged. The paper trail of her misadventure was erased. The mental and emotional trauma was not. The retailer offered her job back but she declined. She decided, instead, to contact an attorney.

The Civil Investigation and Mediation

As a security expert witness, I am retained by lawyers for law suits that allege inadequate security or negligent security. In this case I reviewed all of the training, supervision, policies and procedures of the defendant’s security staff and reviewed hours of video of the alleged theft. My review allows me to provide an opinion as to whether the actions of the defendant were reasonable. There clearly were anything but reasonable.

Civil cases rarely go to trial as they are settled through mediation. In essence, both sides meet with a mediator, who is usually a retired judge, and through the presentation of the case, a settlement value is agreed upon. If the offer of the defendant is unacceptable, the case moves forward. A case can settle at any time afterwards.

Settlement/Redemption

It is important to understand that the actual company rarely pays anything. They are covered under insurance policies that cover attorney costs and settlement. Many times, however, they are self-insured up to a certain amount.

The initial offer when the civil case was filed was $25,000. The settlement (to keep it from going to trial) was $600,000.00. The mediator was so outraged at the conduct of the retailer, he suggested substantially more but that was rejected.

Conclusion and Take-aways

Companies of any type provide a hiring basis, policy and procedure, training regarding those policies and supervision of its employees. I call these the four legs of the chair. Without all four firmly in place, the failure is foreseeable. Chairs don’t usually break the first time you sit on one. The actions of the security personnel and management over the years prior to this showed a continuing escalation of failing to follow procedures and lax supervision. Lax supervision results in people not following procedures.

The security staff simply were told to “get this wrapped up right away”. The pressure of their marching orders and their supervisor’s approval to move forward set in motion a train wreck. What also happened in this case is the thinking that if the police pursued a criminal case it certainly must be “okay”. Reality check: If you are the complaining witness, the liability rests with you. Your actions, investigation, and subsequent confrontation of the employee ultimately resulted in your identification of a specific person committing a specific criminal act.

If you are in a position within a business to conduct investigations, especially criminal investigations, I offer the following:

  1. Never, never, never hurry through an investigation! It is better to fully understand the specific facts over time than to feel compelled to hurry to confront an employee.
  2. Company managers “always” believe they know how to interview an employee. It’s their chance to prove they took notes during the last rerun of Colombo or they’ve watched 100 YouTube videos (or read Pat Murphy’s investigation guide). Consider an interview as if you’ve been called to diffuse a bomb. Is it the green wire or the red wire?
  3. Most employers do not have a security department to investigate crimes. In this case, that didn’t matter anyway. They were foolish across the board. Calling the police is a great option. What I mean by that is to call the police headquarters and talk to an investigator or detective. Cover the facts and see if they have any input. At this point, you, as the employer, are still in control of what happens next.
  4. The alternative is to not even consider prosecution. Termination cannot be taken lightly if it is brought about by a hurried, thrown-together, investigation. My recommended approach is to have sufficient grounds under current company to terminate before ever talking to the employee. There is absolutely no ground to be gained by hoping for some sort of admission of a serious policy violation and thus basing their termination on that. There is also no ground to be gained by trying for get a confession from them for past acts. Caution and professionalism is critical.
  5. Lastly, the more important question is how the employee was able to commit the act(s). If a thorough post-incident review is not conducted, nothing has been accomplished. Generally, the cause was lax or lack of supervision. The direct supervisor was probably already identified as a poor performer so the end result should not be a surprise.

Litigation is very costly and can ruin a business both financially and their reputation in the community. Seek professional guidance before conducting a criminal investigation

Employee Theft Interviews

, , , , , , , , , , ,

A Business Process With a Considerable Downside
By Security Expert J. Patrick Murphy

Note: Theft, fraud, and embezzlement are crimes. As a security expert witness, I recommend criminal investigations  only be conducted by professionals with experience in that arena, specifically law enforcement or civilians with extensive training. The mishandling of a criminal investigation can ultimately put you at the risk of civil litigation, damaging the prosecutability of a case, or suffering through a criminal complaint brought by the offender you pursue. If you would like a free phone consultation, click here for the phone number.

The following should not be considered legal advice.  A company’s Legal Department or Corporate Counsel should advise an employer before conducting an interview.  If you are an attorney seeking a security expert witness for employment cases involving internal investigations, our email is pat.murphy@lptoday.com.  713-899-2402

_______________

Read our case study: Employee prosecuted for a crime she did not commit.

The public’s perception of an investigation has been molded by Hollywood: Bad guy commits crime, good guys follow clues, bad guy interrogated who then makes some minor slip of the tongue that proves he did it, arrest, court, guilty and then jail. Of course there are appropriate pauses for commercials. One could only wish it was that simple. I left out one piece of the series of events that seems to be today’s culture: (version 2)…the bad guy was video taped and his face was as clear as if he had posed or CSI enhanced the video to a crystal clear resolution. What really should be shown are the fifteen plaintiff’s attorneys waiting in the wings to sue the offending good guys.

We can can answer your questions on talking with a suspected employee – Learn more about our Security Expert Witness Services!

We’re going to concentrate on the interview phase of an investigation, what questions to ask (further down the page) a theft suspect and discuss good and bad practices. This will be a general discussion that applies generically based on over 1000 employee theft interviews and countless witness interviews. The discussion is aimed at the personnel who are thrust into the position of having to interview those connected with a critical breach of trust or serious violation of internal policy.

Interview and interrogation skills are a mixture of recognizing body language, knowing that no one admits to wrongdoing initially, being patient and knowing how and when to ask questions. The examples on TV shows are nothing like they are in reality, especially when dealing with theft and embezzlement.

There are two prominent companies that offer instruction and training on conducting these types of interviews. Wicklander & Zulawski (www.w-z.com) and Reid (www.reid.com). If the interviewer is not trained, at the very least there should be company procedures established to guide non-investigative personnel. Conducting “cold” interviews whereby a series of people are interviewed in hopes of gaining an admission, is not for the untrained. Said another way, the investigation should provide enough evidence and information to point to the actual culprit(s). There is comfort in knowing what you know.

Here are a few guidelines that should be considered. It should be said too that, regardless of skill level, extreme care is demanded of all investigatory interviews. Get Employee Theft Questions and other tips.

It’s not personal. But it is difficult for some to place themselves in the role as the simple interviewer. This is especially true in small companies. A direct supervisor is probably the last choice to conduct an interview alleging theft or embezzlement.

The following should be considered instructional guidelines and not legal advice.  Civil litigation can be pursued from a mishandled interview.  Contact a security consultant or your attorney if you need advice or direction.

Witnesses.

Security interviews can be conducted with or without a witness present. Female employees should always have a female witness present. A witness should sit out of the peripheral vision of the person being interviewed. The witness should not be an active part of the interview but should take notes. If the employee diverts their attention to the witness to talk to them, simply redirect them calmly back to the interviewer.

Juveniles.

If your interview involves a juvenile, consult with your legal counsel about having a parent or guardian present. In general, you did not need the parent to be present when you hired them and you would not be required to have them there to conduct an inquiry into the employee’s behavior.

Be prepared.

Create an outline of how you wish to present your facts. Have your documentation and evidence prepared as well.

Props.

Examples of props: Thick file folders with labels such as “Theft Investigation of John Doe” or DVD’s marked with similar labels. A prop is intended to give the interviewee the impression of overwhelming evidence against them. My recommendation: Don’t use them. If your investigation does not have merit on its own then perhaps the decision to talk to the employee should be reconsidered. Leave the props to theater.

Introduction and documenting time.

Provide the employee a document stating that they acknowledge that they can stop the interview at any time and are free to leave at any time. Have them sign that document for your file. Document the start and stop time of the interview and document any offering of a break for use of a restroom or drink even if it is refused. Document the time of those offerings and acceptance/refusal. Prepare a document ahead of time that has the following:

My name is _______. Today’s date is ____ and the time is ____. I understand that I am being interviewed by ___ whom I know to be ____(manager, Human Resources, etc). I understand that this interview is regarding an internal matter of my company and that I have the right to stop this interview at any time. I understand I can leave this interview if I do not wish to discuss this any further. Signed _______.

This small paragraph could become a critical piece of evidence in the event allegations are made that someone was being interviewed for long periods of time or were held against their will.

Don’t position yourself between the employee and the door.

How long? Be very mindful of the duration of the interview. If an admission has not been made within an hour then it is unlikely that any further discussion will bring one. It is important to understand that this does not mean there is a standard to length of interviews nor does it suggest that haste is important. Simply keep in mind that the employee should never be given the impression that they will sit there until they confess or that they do not have the option to end the interview. However, my experience of well over 1000 such interviews tells me that an hour is on the outer edge of reasonable time when interviewing someone and no admissions have been obtained.

Be mindful of the lateness of the interview. Do not be the only people in the entire building at 11:00 PM.

Be mindful that if the employee says they have an appointment and can’t stay you may have to reschedule.

Note taking.

There are pros and cons to taking notes. Interviewees tend to be distracted when they notice someone writing something down. During the interview try not to take too many notes. You’ll come back to the admissions later.

Recording.

Audio or video recording an interview is dangerous territory. If done, it should be with the full acknowledgement and authorization of the interviewee. I have tape recorded one interview in my career and it was a witness, not the suspect. Keep in mind that your recording will be used as evidence in a criminal trial or civil litigation.

Striking a deal.

NEVER offer to negotiate their termination or prosecution. Don’t offer to not prosecute if they just “tell the truth” or if they just made payments for the loss “everything would be alright”. Don’t make statements implying that the investigation will make the morning news (even if it might) if they don’t admit to the allegations. Don’t threaten to fire them if they refuse to take a polygraph.

Maintain control.

Don’t allow the interviewee to steer the interview by demanding to take a polygraph. They can do that on their own if they wish but it is not their decision as it relates to company business.

Show me the video!! There is no obligation to show the interviewee any video evidence. Note: If you say you have it, make sure you do.

Soft phrases.

Employees have a very difficult time using the words “steal, theft, intentional, lied”. Instead they use softer descriptions such as “took, borrowed, mistake, mislead”. Efforts should be made to clarify that they knew what they were doing was theft. While they were going to pay the money back later, they were not authorized to take the money and it did not belong to them. Don’t get hung up on making them say “I stole the money”.

Your Policy.

Take care in defining theft in the context of a criminal act versus what is deemed a “violation of company policy”. Consult with local authorities on statutes defining theft, forgery, embezzlement, credit card abuse or other such offenses. It is always against company policy to steal however keep in mind that not all employee theft cases can be prosecuted. Ultimately the goal is to terminate or discipline the employee and therefore there must be cause to do so. Review policy and procedures to try to address specific types of issues but it is advisable to have a broad policy that would allow termination for gross violation of company policy.

As the interview progresses.

Expand the interview to understand where they learned how or got the idea to do this. Many times employees are influenced when they see others do the same thing. This is especially true when they see a member of management steal. There could be others involved. Use that as a method to reduce the person’s feelings of guilt. They were simply going along with others. “Was this your idea or were you just going along?”

The Written Statement.

Obtain a written statement from the employee about the thefts they committed. Ask that they include implications of any other persons involved in theft. Have them be very specific about those allegations. Have them state dates, times, circumstances, and the property involved.

The conclusion of the interview should result in a voluntary written statement. It should be written in the person’s own handwriting and signed by the witness as well. Document the times of the beginning and ending of the writing of the statement. Obtaining a written statement is important but dictating it is leaving the door open to question as to the validity of the content. If upon completion of the statement, it is found that they left out important facts or information, they can be asked to write about that. Accept the manner in which the statement is written, bad handwriting, poor grammar, spelling and all.

Facebook and other social media.

Adults heavily use social media sites and they can actually be helpful in an investigation especially when they post their latest exploits. If you access the public areas of their social media postings and photos take care in how that is introduced into an interview process. If you have “friended” someone through a surreptitious means to gain access to restricted areas, you may be breaking the law. Discuss this with your Legal Department before venturing off into someones information.

Finally, they do not need to be read their Miranda rights unless they are being interviewed by law enforcement.

INTERVIEWING JUVENILE EMPLOYEES

The following is based on experience and is not intended as legal advice. Every state has a different definition of the age of a juvenile in terms of a criminal offense. Consult with your Human Resources and Legal Department before interviewing any employee.

The general question I am often asked is whether a parent or guardian must be contacted prior to an interview. I know of no legal requirement to do so. The employee works for and is to abide by company policy and procedures permission to work for you and the employment agreement is between the employer and the employee, not the parents. Having said that however, additional care and consideration should be given prior to conducting these types of interviews.
All employee interviews should be handled consistently. Said another way, just because they are young, do not try a parent-child approach or take an intimidating posture. This is a business process that should be consistent at every juncture.

Minors do not generally understand their rights as an employee, so it is imperative that a written acknowledgement of their understanding of their right to stop the interview is obtained.

Never try to use street slang or popular “speak” to attempt to gain trust or to impress.

Understand that a juvenile has little to lose if caught stealing even if they are prosecuted. A small percentage may actually verbalize this and are probably fairly street smart. It is unlikely you will obtain an admission anyway. Back to a previous caution, go into the interview with your case prepared for termination regardless.

It would be a fair assumption that a juvenile is not stealing alone. They are in collusion with other employees and are often stealing for/with friends and family members. Check with your local prosecutor to determine if conspiracy charges could be pursued. Good advice however: keep it simple.

Retailers are the most likely victim of internal theft. Interviewing a juvenile after a store closes is risky especially if a parent is in the parking lot waiting to pick them up. If a parent is waiting, I would suggest having the employee advise the parent of the interview. If the employee wants to go home, let them.

Parents.

Do they have the right to copies of statements, evidence, etc.? No. All investigative efforts are proprietary. I have read statements to parents over the phone which generally changed the tone and direction of the conversation. Can they demand to sit in on an interview? Yes but granting that request is an accommodation not a right. Can the parents call the employee on their cell phone and stop the interview? Yes but “failing to cooperate in an investigation” should be fully explained to the employee.

“Failing to cooperate in an investigation”.

Ensure your company has written policy as to the forms of failure to cooperate. Complying with the interview request but refusing to write a statement should not be considered uncooperative. Refusing to take a polygraph is their right as an employee under the Employee Polygraph Protection Act. Failing to come to a scheduled interview is being uncooperative. Bottom line, know your policy and ensure it is well published in company manuals and new hire information.

Keys to a Successful Interview

“Everyone” will deny any wrongdoing initially and may maintain this position for some time throughout the interview. It’s part of the process.

Consider it a conversation about a sensitive topic. Remain calm and appear to be both empathic and sympatric to the employee. In general, people want someone to understand why they did it. You already have evidence that it happened. Peer pressure, economic needs, addictions are common. Whether you agree with their needs or not is not important. It is critical that the employee feel they were justified is their behavior because you understand. This is where the training and the art of interviewing begins to move the interviewee into that comfort zone of admission.
Most thefts involve some deviation from normal procedure so it is important to discuss that amid other policies and procedures. If the interview is about padding expense reports, don’t just discuss the policies governing those. This discussion leaves little room for them to state they were not properly trained.

Interviews can be conducted by phone but this requires patience and a skilled interviewer. Seek the counsel of an experienced consultant or private investigator before attempting this practice.

It’s not personal. Theft, especially in small businesses, impacts profitability and there are few people other than perhaps the owner who can conduct an interview. As much as one would like to toss the individual under the jail, the primary objective is to protect yourself against future civil action. Anger will cause the employee to shut down and become defensive. Anger may be met with anger which would escalate things beyond control. Once an employee has reached that level it is extremely difficult to regain the flow of the conversation.

Don’t interview someone with the “hope” of getting an admission in order to terminate or prosecute. Your evidence should be clear enough to at least provide for termination regardless if an admission or written statement is not obtained. With that evidence in hand, there is no need to even discuss that until the very end. The object is to find out those things that you did not know about.

Employee interviews are very delicate and should not be attempted without proper preparation and strategy. Forget everything you ever saw on TV or in a movie about interrogations. Prosecution may not always be available and prosecution is sometimes the least satisfactory resolution to the problem. This is a business process that could expose not only your company but you as an individual to law suits if handled improperly.

WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK

The hardest part of an interview can be simply getting started. What questions do I ask an employee who has been investigated for theft? In truth, there are not really many questions to ask initially. The recommended dialog is to talk about company losses and how, in general terms, investigations are conducted. Talk about family, their job satisfaction, etc. but work towards establishing rapport. Continue by discussing how understanding the company is about these things and that it’s important to resolve the issues. This is a monologue that allows the interviewer to set the stage AND to minimize “how terrible of a human being they are”. Confessions are the result of the person feeling understood and that what they did was wrong but they had justification (in their own mind) to commit the act. This may seem very counter intuitive but empathy, regardless of how disingenuous, needs to be displayed by the interviewer. Said another way: Don’t start with the statement that you know they’ve been stealing and they are going to jail unless they tell you everything!

There are no set questions to ask nor is there an order with which to present them that can be properly covered here. Circumstances of a particular case, the amount of evidence gathered, the proficiency of the interviewer and the type of person being interviewed all play a role. Here are some areas that may help throughout the interview:

Admissions in interviews come as the result of the person’s belief that you, the interviewer, understand why they did it. In other words we all create internal rules that allow us to do certain things that may be “bad”: I’ll start my diet tomorrow, Lying just a little bit is okay, I needed the money to care for my family, etc. Regardless of the justification the person has created in their mind, unless you can empathize (truthfully or not) with the “why”, admissions will never come forth.

The theft may not have been their idea initially (justification that it’s not really their fault). Perhaps they saw someone else do the same thing and get away with it. Seeing a supervisor steal may give them justification.

What was the smallest value they every took from the company? (Small thefts are always the beginning and you work from there.) Office supplies? “Ok, yeah that happens all the time. Do you remember the first time you did that?” You just obtained your first admission! It’s not important that you are investigating the theft of a laptop. What is important is that you have established a beginning (time line and amount) to expand.

Once that is established discuss the types of losses that happen. Talk about office supplies or parts from the warehouse or theft from the money jar, oh, and lap tops. Pause. This is not a question, this is a statement meant to provoke the body to react to the word laptop (or what ever the target is). Watch for shifting posture, eyes diverting downward, or their hand going to their mouth and staying there. Research this fascinating topic to learn more about body language and Neuro-Linguistic interviewing.

The body will always give them away before their lips will. Find ways to continue the discussion about why people make the choices they do. Rationalize for them in positive ways because you know they would never take something because they had a ….drug habit, gambling habit, etc “Did you take the money because you have a drug habit or because you were just trying to meet bills?” This question is not meant to obtain an actual answer. If you’re on the right track, the interviewee will pause instead of delivering an immediate, strong denial of taking anything. You are very close.

I always found interesting insight by asking the employee what they thought the company should do to someone who was caught stealing but provide them with two choices: send them to jail or simply let it be a lesson to them to not do it again. Choosing the lesser of the two may indicate a fear of the consequences of theft. Keep in mind though, they may be simply expressing their own personal values or they may have stolen something else entirely. That “something else” may be ten times more valuable than the theft you know about or the total amount of the thefts over time is enormous.
Develop the admissions to cover the entire length of their employment regardless of the value. You may never get an admission to the “laptop” but you will have sufficient cause to terminate the employee.

These above is not intended to be a comprehensive discussion on interview and interrogation. In fact, these barely scratch the surface. It is a complex topic that takes considerable training and application to master. Before interviewing an employee of any position in your company, discuss with Senior Managers or your Legal Department. The downside to failing to take reasonable care could be monumental.

Employee Theft Investigation Practical Guide by J. Patrick Murphy

, , ,

Read our case study: Employee prosecuted for crime she did not commit.

Regardless of your business sector size of your company, employee theft has happened and will occur in the future. Theft can be in the form of proprietary information, data, company supplies (not a pen), cash, stock manipulation, and the list is endless. However there are some common covenants that should be in place. Policy and procedure is important to running a small business or multimillion dollar corporation. They are the rules of the road. There cannot be a more important set of guidelines than how employee theft is handled within the company. Contact us for a free phone consultation, click here for our number.

Read LPToday’s Other Guides on Employee Theft and Investigations Training:

You can find even more great premise security tips and employee theft interview questions in our Security Articles.

Call us and a security expert will discuss your issues and provide possible guidance.

Shoplifter Apprehension and Deterrence

, ,

Shoplifter Apprehension and Deterrence from a retail loss prevention expert’s point of view.  Our security expert witness and consulting company offers Loss Prevention consulting and training for retailers that need assistance in deterring and apprehending shoplifters.

Shoplifters account for over 40%* of all losses to retailers and that’s WITH all of the security hardware, EAS Tagging, display cases,  Loss Prevention staff and CCTV!  How does a retailer make these losses decline without having to put everything behind a glass wall?  This is an age old problem for the small one-store company to the big box billion dollar corporations.  Regardless of your volume, the loss percentage still hits home. How can you properly protect your assets and reduce exposure to litigation involving a shoplifter?  Employee theft and shoplifting statistics, by Jack Hayes in retail will give you insight into the depth of the problem.

Creating An Anti-Theft Strategy
We have over 35 years of experience in retail loss prevention management, security assessments, and law enforcement.  We can assist your company to better protect your assets regardless if you are a single store or a multi unit company.

  • Review of current policies and procedures
  • Review of store layout and merchandise arrangement plan.
  • Review all physical security measures.
  • Review of “hot spots” for theft
  • Review current employee training and awareness.
  • Review of apprehension policies and training.

After a comprehensive review we develop a custom plan of action to assist reducing shrinkage through external theft.  The “custom” aspect is very important because we understand that the approach must be “Best for Business” and not necessarily based on “Best Practice”.  Simply stated, we understand budgetary and personnel differences.  Our recommendations will comprehensive but we will help identify the core needs.  Any program, hardware installation or training can be expanded over time as appropriate.  We are experts in the areas of:

  • Identifying the appropriate physical hardware that is available.  This includes
    CCTV System, Security Tagging Systems (EAS) and much more.
  • Creating an awareness program that is interactive and informative.
  • Developing a self-audit program to maintain an optimum level of strength.
  • Creating a culture to maximize the involvement of all employees.
  • Apprehending Shoplifters

If your company currently has a shoplifter apprehension policy and procedure we highly recommend that it be thoroughly reviewed.  When prevention fails and apprehension is appropriate specific procedures and training must be in place.  Apprehension is a facet of retail that has many serious consequences if it is accomplished improperly.

  • Do you have a documented apprehension and prosecution policy?
  • Do you know what to do if the individual does not want to return to the store?
  • Do you know what to do if the individual runs?
  • Do you have a policy regarding the use of handcuffs or chemical sprays during apprehensions?

Law suits that originate from a shoplifter’s injury or death are not uncommon.  Additionally customers and even innocent bystanders who are injured by fleeing shoplifters can sue your company.  Civil cases are more apt to be in favor of the plaintiff when apprehension policies are not in place or they are not followed.  The use of force is nearly always a factor.  Criminal charges have also been brought against individual loss prevention staff when serious injury or death has occurred in effecting an apprehension.

Litigation Services

We can not only assist a retailer establish proper policy and procedure, but we can also assist as a testifying expert witness in civil cases. Our experience includes cases involving Wal Mart, JC Penney, Sears, Macy’s, Home Depot, Fry’s Electronics,  Burlington Coat Factory, and others.

Shoplifting has become a multi-billion dollar business through organized crime.  Organized Retail Theft is at a level that most consumers have no understanding.  To see the top 50 shoplifted items click here. Special measures can be designed to thwart the wholesale theft of merchandise but it takes planning and implementation to be successful.  We can assist you in convenience stores, big box retail, retail pharmacy, specialty stores and boutiques.

Deaths From Shoplifting Apprehensions

From our own research:  Shoplifting related deaths are rare but they do occur even among the most highly trained.  Anyone attempting to stop a shoplifter must understand the full ramifications of their actions and the dangers they face.

LPToday Security Consulting has the Expertise to Help You Combat Shoplifting: Deter. Detect. Defend.